One of these paradoxes is important: the presence of God in hell, that place unto which the wicked are departed and suffer the unlimited and unceasing fury of God because of their sin. The Bible tells us that the Holy Spirit can be “quenched” as well as … Can sinful man be in the presence of God? Romans 15:4 NKJV If sin can not exist in the presence of God, How could Satan (in the book of Job) walk multiple times into the councils of heaven? So it is a twisting again, of the Scriptures that are meant to rescue and save us from sin. The moment you repent and believe upon Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior, you are saved from the penalty of sin. He is there to uphold you, to be with you, and to heal you. But wait a minute. God cannot look upon sin, God cannot allow sin into His presence, God must turn away from looking at sin and similar cliché's . ABSOLUTELY NOT ! Thanks . If sin can not exist in the presence of God, How could Satan (in the book of Job) walk multiple times into the councils of heaven?? Answer: To answer this question, we must first consider who God is. Dr. Michael Gleghorn is both a research associate with Probe Ministries and an instructor in Christian Worldview at Grand Canyon University in Phoenix, Arizona.. Has anyone ever read the opening chapter of Job ? The problem is that we cannot be in the presence of God. To hold the belief that God cannot be in the presence of sin, one would have to first deny trinitarian theology and the divinity of Jesus– there’s no legitimate way around that. If God cannot be in the presence of sinners, then there can be no judgment of sinners. God cannot look WITH FAVOR upon sin and evil, but He can certainly be in the presence of sinners. In fact, the full rendering is, “Your eyes are too pure to look on evil.” But we know God does not literally have eyes! 12volt_man Well-Known Member. Thank y'all very much. But I’ve never considered it a block to his presence in the face of evil or as a bludgeon for anyone. This is the first time I hear of such nonsense. Isaiah 59:2 tells us, "but your iniquities have made a separation between you and your God, and your sins have hidden his face from you so that he does not hear." Logged darryl. So to say that God can not be in the presence of sin is wrong. Since God & Jesus couldn’t commit spiritual suicide, God’s turning away was the closest thing to it. Why/Why Not/What are the Consequences? Habakkuk 1:13 says that God is too pure to look on evil. This is proven by God’s omnipresence (as you noted), the incarnation of God the Son, and even God’s continued (if temporary) interaction with some of the fallen angels (including Satan – e.g. But, this is not the whole story. 6/4/12: Can God be in the Presence of Sin. I’ve often cried for Jesus’ pitiful lonilness when God forsook him on the cross. He couldn’t have been there when the Jews were making His Father’s house into a den of thieves. Seek the Holy Spirit For Strength. Saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ from the penalty, the power and the presence of sin will be our song to God our Savior for all eternity. Salvation is God’s power to deliver and protect in this life and in the age to come. I see it as a heartbreaking object lesson that shows how far God & Jesus are willing to go to save us.. I’m Rebecca Davis, a writer, editor, speaker, wife, mother, grandmother, friend, advocate for the oppressed, and lover of Jesus who lives in Greenville, South Carolina. Question: "Can God sin? Because of their disobedience, Adam and Eve are now exiles; their mission is in shambles as they stand outside of Eden. 18:18-21; Rev. Why can't sin be in the presence of God when the father of lies, the sinner of all sins, is allowed to have a conversation with God & the Angels in Heaven? And why is it in Judaism Satan's not considered evil? In the Genesis study, he taught God (mercifully) made noise in the Garden so Adam and Eve … John says: If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. Can sinful man touch God? Thanks for another thought provoker, and the clarity, Rebecca. Who can forgive sins, but God alone?” Luke 7:36-50. A new perspective on an old question, Here’s Why “Gratitude Motivation” Isn’t Biblical—and What’s Better, “Your empathy is a sin” – a response to Desiring God, Hope for the Weary at Advent (guest post by Teri Zalk), The secret to living a life that pleases God, Your Pastor Isn’t Moses: a Response to John Bevere’s “Under Cover”. God is spirit (John 4:24) and does not have a physical presence. What?! God cannot be seen (as Pastor Armstrong explained) because God’s holiness and perfect judgment requires that He must condemn sin if it enters His presence (i.e., sees His “face”). Why hasn't Satan simply killed God with his "evil presence" if God can't coexist with Evil? Post was not sent - check your email addresses! In prayer ministry work with abuse survivors, it’s common to ask Jesus to show up in the memory of the abuse. We know that eventually he will quarantine evil from good when he creates the New Heaven and Earth (Rev. The Bible teaches just as darkness cannot exist in the presence of light, sin cannot exist in the presence of a holy God. “God can’t be in the presence of sin,” more than one friend has said to me, “so there’s no way Jesus could be there where that awful stuff is happening.”, I think this belief came from some teaching about the death of Jesus on the cross. Taken from our blog, Greg Koukl of Stand to Reason answers the question, "If God cannot be in the presence of sin, how could Satan have approached him … Let’s just – can’t we just all get along?” No, that’s not God’s approach. (1 John 1:8) So what does deliverance from sin mean? We also know that God is omnipresent, which means he is present everywhere. He comes into the places of trauma to bring … Stand to Reason Blog; Why doesn’t He stop the abuse when it’s happening? https://www.bible.com/114/rom.15.4.nkjv, Yes, it’s so important to keep the verses in their context, and to understand accurate principles of interpretation. If our God could never be in the presence of sin, that means Jesus couldn’t have been there when the Jews were committing Him to crucifixion. Is this biblical ? By taking the punishment for our sin, He cancelled the debt that each of us owes God (Colossians 2:14). Well, I had heard an equally cold hearted statement inside some Charismatic circles.. ‘If you have a problem, you aren’t right with God. Jesus was called a friend of sinners. Can God Be In The Presence of Sin? He loves you. Comments. Today, we have the Holy Spirit within us so we can experience the presence of God unlike those who have gone before us. Yes, God can be in the presence of sin. Perhaps Satan has sympathy for God? “‘Am I only a God nearby,’ declares the Lord, ‘and not a God far away? 7,339 +245 Christian. Can god be in the presence of sin? Sorry, your blog cannot share posts by email. The human mind, however, cannot adequately grasp who He is if it were not for the special revelations He has given us. Christians often say that God cannot allow any sin in his presence. Here is God’s answer to our cry for deliverance from the presence of sin. For Jesus to pay the full price for our sin, he had to experience the lonely, Godless, emptiness of spiriitual death. And you can take heart that the presence of these ungodly, sinful acts won’t be any sort of deterrent to Him. June 26, 2012 by Mark. That’s why, to have the Holy Spirit within us, we must first 1.) So what are we to make of all this? The purpose is different. Why/Why Not/What are the Consequences? But when I’m helping someone process her memories, the purpose of her telling horrors is not to violate me or manipulate me, but to get help. But the good news is that even as we draw far away from God, He waits for us to return and even invites us to come back to Him. The Bible nowhere says that God cannot be around sin or sinners. It is still in God that all people live and breathe and have their being (Acts 17:28). That gives me a tiny glimpse of the way God views sin. 6. Those who love him will no longer be in the presence of sin from that point forward. Click on each image to go to Amazon to read reviews and purchase. Obviously, if God cannot look upon sin or evil then God should not have been able to look upon satan, or even allow satan to enter His presence. #1 – We Are Always In The Presence Of God. Quietness Hearing God's Voice Concealment, Of Sin Gardens Suffering, Emotional Aspects Of Hiding From God God, Presence Of God, Human Descriptions Of Unity, God's Goal Of They heard the sound of the Lord God walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and the man and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the Lord God among the trees of the garden. It makes the one who sins unable to dwell in the presence of Heavenly Father, for “no unclean thing can dwell with God” (1 Nephi 10:21). Satan works overtime to keep you out of this one place, and it is the place of God's glorious presence. ? However, God did dwell with sin, to do this he had to become flesh to live in the environment of sin. Sin results in the withdrawal of the Holy Ghost. Throughout the Old Testament period, we find various ways in which God revealed His presence in special ways. Would love your thoughts, please comment. I think this belief came from some teaching about the death of Jesus on the cross. After their sin, they became separated from this presence. Rather, it says that Jesus became a curse for us when He hung on the “tree” (Galatians 3:13, referring to Deuteronomy 21:22-23), and losing the presence of the Father was part of the curse that He bore. Death will be swallowed up by eternal resurrection life. Yes, He is pure, but this purity doesn’t mean He can’t touch evil or be near it. God avoid standing fully revealed in our presence to protect us from that danger not to protect Himself who cannot be harmed. We can criticize wolves in sheep’s the way Jesus criticized them as long as we do it non-anonymously, because we’re following the example of Jesus (you will know them by their fruits), but in general our dialogue needs to be respectful of others and the Lord, seeing as how I’m a Christian and this is a Christian blog. The Bible nowhere says that God cannot be around sin or sinners. One of the points of the 'gospel' message that I've often heard (and have memorized and shared with others in the past) is that God is Holy and that means he can not be in the presence of sin. Is this biblical ? Now one of the Pharisees was requesting Him to dine with him, and He entered the Pharisee’s house and reclined at the table. Let’s start with the most obvious one. The Bible teaches that God is opposed to sin and evil, that he is holy and righteous. Crazy , how many “Christian adages” we just accept without thinking critically about them. God cannot look WITH FAVOR upon sin and evil, but He can certainly be in the presence of sinners. And you can take heart that the presence of these ungodly, sinful acts won’t be any sort of deterrent to Him. The Lord Jesus Christ, when He died, took upon Himself all the sins of all those who believe on Him. If he is present everywhere then he cannot but be in the presence of sinful creatures. 0. Some people have said that that it had to be because at that point Jesus had taken upon Himself all the sins of the world, and God couldn’t look on sin. If God cannot sin, is He truly omnipotent?" When Jesus was dying, the Scriptures tell us, He cried out (Matthew 27:46): “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”. 'God' created everything including Satan and 'sin'. He can’t just say, “Hey, you know, you’re a sinner, you’re a rebel, no problem, no big deal. In the New Testament God is also called Savior (Lk. Sin is no less possible for you now than it was before. Through Jesus Christ and His Atonement, each person can repent and be forgiven of sins. Read Scripture Aloud. Matthew 7:21-23 ESV / 67 helpful votes Helpful Not Helpful “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. In the presence of God sin must either destroyed or else changed so much as to be identical with being destroyed. On behalf of atheists everywhere I'd like to publicly thank the fundies for creating such comedy for us to larff at. God has a reputation for not being able to be around sin or sinners. Can sinful man see God? When I’ve watched a movie that suddenly had an immoral part I didn’t expect, or when evil is presented in a funny or appealing way, I would feel violated. Post Views: 1. If He had to protect Himself from being “tainted” by someone else’s sin or contamination, that means He couldn’t have touched the lepers to heal them. June 2011 + Irini nem ehmot, The question itself is inherently flawed. And you can take heart that the presence of these ungodly, sinful acts won’t be any sort of deterrent to Him. Let him tarry in God's presence till his holiness shines upon him, and he cries out … When Jesus died on the cross, He took upon Himself all the sin of the world (2 Corinthians 5:21; 1 John 2:2). He couldn’t have taken all our sins upon Himself on the cross. A friend who is a survivor of lifelong horrific abuse asked me once if I felt dirty or violated or tainted listening to her story (told in agonizing bits and pieces over the course of months). When those whose hearts are set against Him engage in sinful acts, His presence is not with them in any positive sense. Believers still sin (1 John 1:8, 10). But He does show up in the healing process, even in these dark and sin-filled places. In the beginning of human history, God enjoyed a close presence with Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden (Genesis 3:8). “And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.” 1 Thessalonians 5:23. There are also several instances in the Bible where Satan and other demons are said to be in God’s presence (e.g., Job 1:6; 2 Chron. But because of sin, we cannot enter His presence (Habakkuk 1:13). God cannot look upon sin, God cannot allow sin into His presence, God must turn away from looking at sin and similar cliché's. At that time, God will physically separate those who love him from those who don’t. Sin hinders everything now, especially man’s experience of God’s presence. The mortal will put on immortality. So yes, Jesus can be in the presence of sin. He couldn’t have taken all our sins upon Himself on the cross. One avenue of revelation is through God’s creation (Psalm 19:1-6). lets look at Matthew 28:19. We could say that God (Jesus, specifically) cannot look on sin without dealing with sin. Man can bang his head all day long against that Closed Door and it shall not open. In other words, there is no place where God is not. (Suffice to say, that particular thinking was NOT the general teaching within any Charismatic group I was a part of, rather an opinion of some fringe preachers / leaders..), SO thankful that God is large enough to handle any problem . You have free will. The problem isn't that God can't be in the presence of sin. Indeed, if all have sinned (and continue to do so), God must be able to be in the presence of sin to indwell those who have placed their trust in the redemption of Christ. (I delineate some of those on my “The beliefs behind the blog” page.). With some movies and TV shows it has seemed to me that one of the “background” purposes has been to defile, or even sear, people’s consciences when it comes to immorality, even rape and incest, and other forms of wickedness. But if there is one who is being victimized, one who cries out to Him, His presence is with her. Untwisting Scriptures and offering the Living Water, to help others (especially those who have been abused) experience the joy to be found in Jesus Christ. “God heard their groaning and he remembered his covenant with Abraham, with Isaac and with Jacob” (Ex. He comes into the places of trauma to bring healing. He comes into the places of trauma to bring healing. Let me see if I can shed some light on this subject. The Lord Jesus Christ, when He died, took upon Himself all the sins of all those who believe on Him. Sin has divided us from the gracious and loving presence of God, but not from His essential presence (Ephesians 2:14). You have free will. After all, the majority of the world still embraced their sin rather than Jesus. The Bible clearly teaches that God is morally perfect and holy, that he hates sin. 23:23-24). Pastor Jimmy Buehler. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Read this carefully: God neither instigates sin nor leads anyone into temptation. The Ultimate Lie. This sin is the root of all our many social ills. Sin results in the withdrawal of the Holy Ghost. ‘Do not I fill heaven and earth?’ declares the Lord” (Jer. Despite God’s repeated attempts to make a way for people, sin kept getting in the way of them enjoying and knowing the power of His presence in their lives. When you get to heaven, you will be saved from the presence of sin. But according to Job 1, God does both. God is the eternal 'I AM', that is to say, He is the only One who truly IS and is ever present. Throughout the Old Testament period, we find various ways in which God revealed His presence in special ways. DEVOTIONAL THOUGHT: Some people get confused about when salvation happens. Job 1-2, etc. The stage is set for the first coming of Jesus. Newer Than: Search this thread only; Search this forum only. If God cannot be in the presence of sinners, then there can be no judgment of sinners. When I told her no and she expressed surprise, I had to think for a while about the reason. This is a violating action, similar to trying to take someone by surprise with pornography. With that mind, here are four simple, utterly ordinary, utterly profound ways we can enjoy the presence of God every day. To be sure, God ordained in the Old Testament that his “presence” be directly associated with the tabernacle in the wilderness or the temple in Jerusalem so that people could speak of entering into God’s presence in the sense that they came near to the place where he had appointed his name especially to dwell or to be identified with. He is there for those who trust Him, even in the dark tunnels and darker valleys, even where heinous sins have been committed. The limitation is not on God. Boys will be boys. He also reversed the curse of our old natures, which keeps us enslaved to sinful passions and desires … I believe there is a place you can go—right after you sin—where you will receive the very tools you need to receive forgiveness from that sin and power to walk in victory over that sin. with love and respect, andy153 Oct 14, 2004. Why/Why Not/What are the Consequences? So, it seems clear that God does see evil and He does allow sin to come into His presence. As in … Believers still sin (1 John 1:8, 10). Ponder that with me for a second and see if it doesn’t cause a shiver of delight to wrap around your spine. I’ve understood Jesus being forshaken as a temporary state, part of the penalty he is taking on to cleanse us. So if God can’t be in the presence of sinners, then He cannot have fellowship with believers. He cannot be everywhere if he also cannot be within the presence of sin. If you are saved, you can sin anytime you want to sin. God’s holiness will eventually consume all sin. Here is God’s answer to our cry for deliverance from the presence of sin. So, where does he go and what does he do when we sin? God was making it clear that His presence was now free to be among the people of the world. Here’s the Joy participates in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites. So why did the Father forsake Him? The main reason you are asking this question is because you are struggling with the idea that the trinity is real. Before continuing, we need to be clear about a couple of terms. It wasn’t that God couldn’t look upon him, rather God turned away because sin leads to spiritual death. What we read and find happening there is a conversation between satan ( the epitome of sin,evil etc..) and God over His protection of His servant Job. When those whose hearts are set against Him engage in sinful acts, His presence is not, Why doesn’t He stop the abuse when it’s happening? The Bible does not say that God cannot be in the presence of sin. 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